If you read my gushing review of The Pomegranate Gate, you know I’m a fan of author Ariel Kaplan. I was thrilled to be given the opportunity to interview her, and hop you find our conversation as intriguing and thought provoking as I did.
BookishlyJewish: I loved The Pomegranate Gate so much! It had so many interlocking pieces and connections that came together at the end. How long did it take you to write?
Ariel Kaplan: Thank you so much! According to my files, I started the draft in the middle of 2018 and worked on it for around two years. The bulk of the book was written over the covid shutdown, so it was slow-going.
BookishlyJewish: Did you go in with an outline or did the book develop on its own?
Ariel Kaplan: I always go into a book with an outline—and then I jettison the whole thing. I’m not sure why I bother writing them up at this point; I go in with the best of intentions and beautiful ten-page outlines I never use beyond the first couple of chapters. In the original outline for Pomegranate Gate, the Old Woman was in exactly one scene (and was never heard from again) and Elena disappeared after chapter three. I’m always a little surprised how much things change in the writing.
BookishlyJewish: I was particularly intrigued by the Dream World and the experience of shared dreaming. Where did this idea come from and what do you think it adds to the lives of the characters that experience it?
Ariel Kaplan: I didn’t invent the concept of shared dreams, but I was intrigued by the idea that this could be a fundamental trait of an entire race. The Maziks are never asleep in the sense that we think of it, in that their dreams aren’t private. They try to mitigate some of the stress of that by making it taboo to discuss what happens in the dreamworld, but of course that only goes so far. The dreamworld also allows people to have relationships that they can’t have waking because of physical or social constrictions, so in that way it makes the world a much richer place for them. And in the case of the half-Maziks, it means that people in the mortal world can communicate with the Mazik world whenever they close their eyes.
BookishlyJewish: The way Toba Bet was created from Toba reminded me of the way some people talk about Adam and Eve with Adam being more worthy, or more of a person, than Eve because he came first. Can you talk a little bit about Toba Bet’s personhood and the choices you took with her arc?
Ariel Kaplan: That’s a really excellent perspective, and honestly it’s one that hasn’t occurred to me until now. Toba Bet begins as a bit of accidental magic, but none of the other characters are cognitively consistent about what she actually is—Asmel even says she and the original Toba are functionally indistinguishable and yet he initially rejects the idea that Toba Bet is a real person. I thought those contradictions were interesting to play with. And of course Toba Bet’s arc continues into the next two books. The fact that she was created rather than born is something she has to wrestle with for a while.
BookishlyJewish: While reading I found myself absolutely gravitating towards the mirror world rather than the “real” world. Was one world easier to write than the other?
Ariel Kaplan: Certain characters are easier to write more then the world, I think, because they just play well off each other. Any scene that had Barsilay in it was very much fun to write because he plays well off anyone.
BookishlyJewish: Do you have a favorite character?
Ariel Kaplan: As I said, Barsilay was probably the easiest character to write. But I think both of the old women characters—Elena and the Old Woman herself—are probably my favorites, because their perspectives are so different, and because fantasy is so often a younger-person’s narrative.
BookishlyJewish: In my review, I said that I would dearly love to see how this book was narrowed down into a one page synopsis for the purposes of querying because I just didn’t think it was possible. Is there such a synopsis? And if yes, how did you manage it?
Ariel Kaplan: You know, I was fortunately enough not to have pitch this myself, which meant that Hannah Bowman (my agent) had to take on that task. This was long enough ago that I don’t remember the details of her pitch letter, but I think it was not dissimilar to the flap copy on the finished book.
BookishlyJewish: Is there anything in particular you hope readers take away from the book?
Ariel Kaplan: I wrote Pomegranate Gate and the sequels, with a deep affection for the Jewish folklore I drew from in writing them, and I hope that comes through. I would love it if these stories piqued an interest in readers in going back to explore those stories, and of course in looking for more Jewish fantasy books.
BookishlyJewish: I haven’t read The Republic of Salt yet, so no spoilers, but what should readers prepare for? Do you have a plan for how many books there will be in the series?
Ariel Kaplan: There are three books in this series; The Republic of Salt is out now, and Book Three (scheduled for 2026, but I don’t think the title has been announced yet) both expand the world of the books. Republic of Salt takes place mainly in the trade city of Zayit (a fantasy analogue of Venice). So we get to see how Maziks are living outside of Rimon, in a city that is culturally distinct and also has a completely different political structure which our characters have to navigate. Without spoiling Pomegranate Gate, I’ll also say that Tarses’s ambitions are grander now, and we see a lot more of his lieutenants, especially the Courser, the Peregrine, and the demon Atalef.
BookishlyJewish: I always end by asking if you have a favorite Jewish book to recommend to our readers.
Ariel Kaplan: I feel like we’re living in a really exciting time for Jewish fantasy… I realized that publishers were willing to take a chance on this after reading The Golem and the Jinni and Spinning Silver, and I haven’t stopped thinking about When the Angels Left the Old Country since I read it.
Side note from BookishlyJewish – it’s a good sign when we’ve read and reviewed all three recommended books!
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